I did however discover one thing that almost always causes it to lock up. If I click on the “MIDI” button while the program is “active”, I then MUST click on the “OK” button to get out of that window and the program nearly always locks up. I assume that would be an easy fix by simply NOT allowing the user to open the MIDI window while the AutoMixer is “active”.
As I’ve said, that’s a problem particular to your MIDI interface, and I can have a look at putting the same workarounds I did for SOF in the AutoMixer program.
One additional feature I’d like to see would be a “dB per second” setting for how quickly the gain rises. I find that after someone ceases to speak, the “jump” up in gain of the other channels (room ambiance) is it a bit too obvious. Believe it or not, I’d love to be able to slow it down. I think this would sound more natural.
Does the “fade” adjustment not get you what you’re looking for? - bottom right of the window.
Best I can tell the “fade” ajustment only affects the rate at which the signals are " attenuated", NOT the rate at which they are “raised”, which is the probelm area for me.
Gotcha. Well, the problem lies in that the raising rate needs to be as fast as possible otherwise the 1st syllable or word could be cut off from the person speaking 1st.
Theoretically, if the fade is set as fast as possible, meaning the rate of attenuation is the same increasing as decreasing and the overall gain never changes, then the noise floor should stay the same. The noise floor will raise if the rates of the attenuation are different. Make sense?
Try it with as fast a fade as possible and see if that sounds any better. If at that rate you’re hearing a difference, then maybe something is wrong with the algorithm. The sum of all the mics gain should remain constant, it would only be out of whack if they are not all changing at the same rate, it seems to me…
I hear you, but given that fact that the other mics are not “OFF” but simply reduced in level, you will here the first word regardless. I use automixers probably 80% of the time in video productions. What concerns me is that there is a VERY sudden jump in the “room ambiance” as someone stops talking.
I will listen again, but I’m pretty sure the “Fade” setting only affects how quickly the levels are reduced and NOT how quickly they rise. Interestingly, there IS a short delay in the gain rising when someone stops speaking (I’d guess between 1/4 to 1/2 a second) but then it rises instantly like some one flipped a switch. It does NOT fade up at all. I quick fade up would be much better for video.
I’ve been doing more testing tonight, this time with all 8 channels active and using some PCC style microphones (actually some AT Pro 44’s).
I was right. Regardless of the “Fade” setting, the levels alway rise at the same speed, and there is an initial delay before the levels rise. The delay may actually be closer to 1 second!
I also discovered that if I change the “Starting Channel” number that I will often loose the midi connection requiring me reopen the “MIDI” box and press “OK”. Sometimes I also need to move a fader to remind the program what console I’m using. I assume this is again a factor of the midi interface.
I’m looking into geting another midi interface and see what happens. Is there one you’d recommend?
It will be interesting to see if changing the interface gives you better results. There should be no delay in the increase of level, and setting the “Fade” to as high a number as possible should match the decrease to the increase rate.
Actually, there’s a good chance that I have no idea what I’m talking about… The total gain DOES of course change, it’s only when there’s input at more than one mic where the gain of all the mics WITH SIGNAL match the gain of one mic with signal.
Very likely I need to modify the way the program works. Setting the max. attenuation to 6 or 10db will probably make things works better, but in the end, you’re probably right that there needs to be a way of making sure the overall gain stays the same so the room noise stays constant. And/Or a slower fade in speed… Let me know waht you think is needed.
Interesting. I’ve been using the Edirol UM-1S. The reveiws I read generally said to stay away fro the M-Audo Uno. People claimed it was not as reliable. I may try it anyway. I also have a Edirol UM-1X on the way, but I believe the only differance between the UM-1S is that the UM-1X has the midi cables attached.
There really is a delay after someone stops talking before the level of all the other mics rise equally to even out the ambiance. Again, I would estimate this delay being close to one second. Inspite of that, I’d still like to see a way to adjust the rate at which the levels rise.
Additionally, I can tell no differnce in the rate at which the signal rises regardless of where the “Fade” rate is set.
Do you have access to an LS9, or are you doing most of this programming blind?
When I wrote the program several years ago, I had regular access to an LS9 and M7CL. Now I have no access to either of these consoles so to test the program or do modifications will require the assistance of you or others with the console. Might be fruitless though if I can’t see the problems myself and debug it.
So, the fade adjustment DOES change the rate at which the attenuation increases (indicators move lower) but not the decrease (rise) of the attenuation, correct?
I don’t remember there being a delay like the one you mention when I wrote the program, so it could be a bug or it could be something to do with the MIDI interface.
Do you see a delay if you talk into one mic and then immediately move to another? e.g. talk into mic one and then continue talking while moving quickly to mic 2. Is there a 1-sec delay in mic 2’s level rising, or does the delay only happen whenever input disappears?
Maybe not fruitless, but certainly more difficult.
So, the fade adjustment DOES change the rate at which the attenuation increases (indicators move lower) but not the decrease (rise) of the attenuation, correct Yes, that is correct!
I don’t remember there being a delay like the one you mention when I wrote the program, so it could be a bug or it could be something to do with the MIDI interface.
Do you see a delay if you talk into one mic and then immediately move to another? e.g. talk into mic one and then continue talking while moving quickly to mic 2. Is there a 1-sec delay in mic 2’s level rising, or does the delay only happen whenever input disappears? [/QUOTE]
Maybe not fruitless, but certainly somewhat more difficult. That being said, I am absolutly convinced you have come up with something here that is quite workable an could be of tremendous benefit to many.
Yes you are correct! The fade adjustment DOES change the rate at which the attenuation increases (indicators move lower) but does not the decrease (rise) of attenuation.
I’ve also wondered if the delay could be a midi problem, but everything else seems to respond very quickly.
I’ll check out some of the other things you mention and let you know.
I’ve been doing some more testing this time with an Edirol UM-1X midi interface. The results seem to be the same. I just ordered a M-Audio “Uno”. It should get here by the end of the week. I’ll let you know if seems any more stable or not.
Oh, BTW - did you ever try talking into one mic and then immediately moving to another to see if the level rises without a delay? e.g. talk into mic one and then continue talking while moving quickly to mic 2. Is there a 1-sec delay in mic 2’s level rising, or does the delay only happen whenever input disappears?
It appear that the delay DOES happen when moving from one mic to another, although it probably is not a full second - may 1/2 second, and the speed at which it rises it NOT affected by the “FADE” rate. Also, I just got a new M-Audio Uno midi adapter. Frankly it seems to function about the same as did the Edirols, with the same issues of locking up in the same places and loosing the connection as did the Edirol.
Do you think you might have a chance to dive back into this anytime soon? I really do think this could be a great little program.
That’s unfortunate. I really don’t remember this problem existing when I wrote the program. I’m sorry you went to that trouble and did not have more success.
Do you think you might have a chance to dive back into this anytime soon? I really do think this could be a great little program.
Thanks,
Tom
I appreciate your support, but without the console, it’d be quite a challenge. Again, my apologies that it’s not working better for you. I’d like to fix it, but I’m pretty swamped right now. I will contact you if I get a chance to try some fixes.
Gee Andy, I understand, however I probably would not have put so much effort into this had I known. Anyway, yes please, if you find some time to work on it. or if you are able to get your hands on an LS9 again, let me know. I’ll do whatever I can to assist you.
I did try to be clear a couple of times in this thread that fixes would be difficult.
I only do the programming as a sideline hobby and a few years ago I had a job that gave me a lot more time to concentrate on it. Now that I’m busier it’s difficult to find time to work on things. The programming is just for fun, I pay for everything myself (software, web site, hardware, etc.) but luckily a few people have found the programs useful. I’d like to do more in the future when my workload calms down, but there’s no end in sight at this point! :BangHead:
Anyway, I will make every effort as I still would like to see this program be useful, even if it’s only to one person, so tell me what needs to be fixed first and I’ll put that as a priority to look into.
The Shure automixer is not just a simple gate. Check out the manual and read up on the NOM feature. I’ve had good experiences with the Peavey unit. It has a lot of features, which I normally don’t need, but “might” and sounds better than the Shure. Of course the Dugan is top dog. Curious why Yamaha still does not have an auto mixer GROUP feature in these consoles.
The total gain DOES of course change, it’s only when there’s input at more than one mic where the gain of all the mics WITH SIGNAL match the gain of one mic with signal.