New DLR radios - compatible with DTR

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Andy,

Sorry if I caused confusion. I am using the software you pointed to - I was having trouble so I momentarily reverted to the old CPS. Here is the update from my tests so far:

Update on update: Rebooted and “Business Radio CPS” (I.E. your new CPS) could write to the DTR – but only if the profile was a DTR profile. The profile that started out as a DLR profile (even though the id of the DTR is in there) gives the error “The profile is not supported by the radio” when I try and write the DTR radio. (and I previously tried having the DTR profile have the ID of the DLR, and attempted to program the DLR, causing the same error)

… So, thus far, the only way I’ve got thing to work is by making BOTH a DTR and a DLR profile, and making them roughly copies of each other (by hand) – not an easy path.

That all makes sense. Thank you for clarifying, Mike!

Okay, it took a whole day of trial and error, but here is how to integrate new DLR radios into an existing DTR fleet using all the available channels. (Two on the DLR1020, and six on the DLR1060.)

The trick is to understand how the two different radios communicate. The DTR radio transmits on a channel (frequency hopping algorithm) and looks for another radio in range that has a matching Group ID number. It will then open the channel and start transmitting.

The DLR uses a different system. It uses exactly the same channels (frequency hopping algorithms) as the DTR, but instead of looking for a Group ID number, it looks for a Profile ID number.

So the key to getting them communicating together is to change the DLR from a Profile ID number system to a Group ID number system, and then adding Public Groups to the DLR, all using the Customer Programming Software (CPS.)

First, you need to change your Public Group ID numbers on the DTRs to avoid numbers 1 to 20. I used the old CPS for this. The DLR takes up numbers 1 to 20 as their internal group ID numbers, and these groups cannot be changed or deleted. So change each Public Group ID on your DTR channels using any number from 21 to 100.

You don’t even need a programming cable to do this, as you can enter the programming mode in the DTR right from the keyboard. But I used the older CPS to do this, as I prefer the layout over the new CPS.

I have six public channels on my DTRs, and they are now set as:
“Dispatch” = channel hopset 2, Group ID 21
“Channel 2” = channel hopset 2, Group ID 22
“Channel 3” = channel hopset 2, Group ID 23
“Channel 4” = channel hopset 2, Group ID 24
“Tactical One” = channel hopset 2, Group ID 25
“Tactical Two” = channel hopset 2, Group ID 26

Once you change your DTRs, you now program the DLR radios using the new CPS. Read your first DLR radio, switch to the ADVANCED menu and unclick the Profile ID Number Lock checkbox. Then add new Public Groups, rename them to match the DTRs, change the channel hopset for each one to the corresponding one on the DTR, and change the ID number to match the DTRs. You will need to start at Public Group #21, because the first 20 cannot be changed or deleted.

Now, switch back to the BASIC menu, and beside each of the existing channels, click “Edit More” and change the entries to match the new name. Under Mode, change Profile ID to Public. Under Channel Mapping, change to the matching channel name that you renamed above.

If you want the DLR voice prompts to announce the new names instead of just the channel numbers, check the Enable Voice checkbox.

You cannot change the name of the DLR radios, so they will always show in your DTR as the 11-digit unit ID number, and you cannot add a DLR unit ID number as a contact into your DTRs.

This is a quick summary of how to change the Public Groups on the DLR radios so they communicate with the DLR radios. I don’t use Private Channels, but programming should be similar. The DLR radios can also use Private Channels under the ADVANCED menu, but you must change the configuration of the buttons to do this.

For anyone simply buying a fleet of DLR radios and who doesn’t need to integrate them with any DTR radios, here is the procedure for programming your new DLR radios:
Step #1 - Turn them on.
Step #2 - Enjoy.

If privacy is a bit of an issue or you get interference from other radios still set on the factory defaults, just change the four-digit ID number on every radio from 0000 to anything else you like. Just make sure all your radios match. You don’t need the software or programming cable to do this; it takes less time to change the number using the menu button on the radio than it does to read this paragraph. Just remember that to get the DLR into programming mode, you start with the radio OFF. Then hold the + button, the PTT and the Power button simultaneously, and HOLD THEM ALL DOWN until it announces it is in programming mode. Then just press the Menu button and follow the voice prompts.

If all you have are DLR radios, save your money and skip the programming cable.

One bug in the new CPS is that if you use it to reprogram your DLR radios instead of just using the menu and buttons on the radio, it seems to disable programming on the radio. There is a checkbox marked Enable Programming in the CPS, but even if checked, using the CPS has disabled programming from the radio on my test sample. This might be a function of unchecking the Lock Profile ID box.

Thats a good illustration of what I stated earlier about weather resistance. The DLR is resistant to heat, cold, dust, impact and vibration, but is NOT rated for rain or water splash.

The more expensive DTR is rated for all of the above, PLUS splash and rain. (Note that the DTR is not rated for water immersion; only moisture and splashes … and this only applies when there are no accessories attached and all rubber plugs are intact.)

Just to summarize, when both DTR and DLR radios are left at factory default settings, they will communicate with each other on any of FIVE channels. From the factory, DLR channel one corresponds with Public Group 1 on the DTR; DLR channel two corresponds with Public Group 2 on the DTR etc. The DLR1060 comes from the factory with six channels and the DLR1020 comes from the factory with two channels. All DTR410, 550 and 650 radios come from the factory with five pre-programmed Public Groups.

If you have a DLR1060 and want your DTR to communicate on the sixth channel, it is easy to add a sixth group to the DTR radios without the need for programming. Just remember that the factory default settings on both the DLR and DTR radios are all on channel 1. “Channel one” on the DLR and “Public Group 1” on the DTR are set to channel 1, ID 1; “Channel 2” on the DLR and “Public Group 2” on the DTR are set to channel 1, ID 2; “Channel three” on the DLR and “Public Group 3” on the DTR are set to channel 1, ID 3; etc. So to add one more group to the DTR so you can talk on all six channels of the DLR, add another group programming from the keyboard, set to channel 1, ID 6.

Here are the channel assignments:
Channel 1/Public Group 1 = channel hopset 1, ID 1
Channel 2/Public Group 2 = channel hopset 1, ID 2
Channel 3/Public Group 3 = channel hopset 1, ID 3
Channel 4/Public Group 4 = channel hopset 1, ID 4
Channel 5/Public Group 5 = channel hopset 1, ID 5
Channel 6 = channel hopset 1, ID 6

So this now shows an EASY and SIMPLER way to get the DLR and DTR radios talking to each other. Unless you are in an area where there are many other DTR/DLR users - which is highly unlikely - simply reset all your radios to the factory defaults. You don’t need any programming cables or software to do this.

To reset the DTR, enter the programming mode by holding down the HOME button while pressing the PTT three times, then push the RIGHT select button, the DOWN scroll button, the LEFT select button, and then hold down HOME while pressing PTT three times. Go to Settings>Advanced>Reset defaults.

To reset the DLR, hold down the - button, the + button, the PTT and then push the Power button. Continue to hold down all four until it beeps to indicate it has been reset to factory defaults.

Quick. Simple. No cables or software needed.

Is there any difference between Resetting the DTR that way, and the factory reset method shown in the flash manual?

[ul]
[li]Hold the Home key and press the PTT button three times
[/li]nr[li]Release all keys
[/li]nr[li]Press the Down, Up and Right Software keys sequentially
[/li]nr[li]Hold the Home key and press the PTT button three times again. You should see the radio restart.
[/li][/ul]

Exactly the same.

Hello Everyone,

I am in the process to replace 3 DTR radios with 4 DLR Radios and I have few questions:

I have the programming cable and the latest CPS software. I programmed all DLRs with the same profile (with the exception of the radio name) and everything works (the 4 radios talking to each other).

  • The DTRs have a feature called " call alert", which is an audible ringtone you can make any radio to emit when receiving an alert. Is there a similar functionality on the DLRs?

  • I need to have all 4 radios talk to each other privately between them (for which I created a private group with all 4 radios in it). However, how can I call directly any of the 4 radios (as I used to do it with the DTRs) for a private 1-1 conversation? Any way I can program the radios to have this functionality?

  • This might sound like a dumb question, but how public groups and private groups work? Do I care that I can create multiple public groups or private groups? (With just 4 radios, I might not).

-With the DTRs, I used not to worry about channels or channel numbers. DLRs (1060 on my case) have 6 channels. Is there a need for me to keep all six channels? (Vs just keeping 2 or 1 channel?). Unless all radios stay on the same channel, they won’t communicate (with the DTRs it was as simple as selecting through the screen what radio or group you wanted to talk to).

  • Besides setting a custom profile ID, what else do I need to maximize privacy (so no one with another DLR around listens to conversations)?

  • Through CPS, I have seen that a radio can be assigned a button for the “direct call” feature (calling another radio directly). However, this only allows one radio to be configured at a time. Is there a way to select what radio to call?

Thanks for all the help in advance. I wish there was better documentation about the CPS programming.

I moved your post here as these people with DLR radios should be able to help more than I can. I don’t have any DLRs.

The DLR radios are not quite as sophisticated as the DTR radios. They don’t have all the same features; for example, there is no one-to-one calling, and no alert tone. As you found in the CPS, one radio can be configured as a “manager” radio, and you can program one of the buttons for direct-call, but that of course is only from any of your DLR radios to that ONE “manager” radio. You can talk privately one-on-one on any channel, but it first requires a group call to all radios. The one radio who needs to reply pushes their private reply button within 3 seconds of the group call, and the two radios are now in one-to-one mode.

The DTR of course could call any radio directly at any time.

Because you have replaced your DTR radios with the new DLR radios, there is no need to integrate both into your fleet. Here is my advice:

  • Forget the groups. Just program in six channels of your choosing, and set all the radios to the same Profile ID number. Done.
  • Forget the direct call feature to the one radio. No one will ever use it, and in cases of urgency, it’s often better when everyone hears it anyway. Reprogram all the buttons back to the factory defaults. Keep it simple.
  • Show everyone the private reply feature and how it works. No one will ever use it, but it does come in handy occasionally. This is why I recommend changing all the button profiles back to their factory defaults.
  • Program all six channels. Even if you don’t use all six, it is handy for moving someone from the main channel temporarily and talking to them on a “tactical” channel.
  • Using the CPS, enable voice, and name the channels using some unique names. For example, you could name them “home,” “channel one,” “tactical one” or anything you can think of. When users scroll through the channels now, they will hear the spoken words instead of just a number. VERY cool feature.
  • Decide if you want to program them to stay on a channel, or to default back to the home channel if no activity is detected in 30 seconds. Because there is no manual channel knob, it may be better to get it to default back to home or users may miss some calls.
  • I like to keep things as simple as possible for users. The DTRs are great and I still love and use them, but in some cases, they almost had too many options for the average user. This is why I recommend getting rid of all groups as they are just not necessary on the DLR. For someone to eavesdrop on your conversation, they would need a DTR or DLR, be within range, be on the same channel hopset AND be programmed with the same ID number. This is likely to NEVER happen. In fact, in all the years I have had DTR and DLR radios, I have never heard the slightest squeek on even the factory default channel 1, ID 1.

I would like to say a a big THANK YOU for the information on the DLR and how to integrate with DTR and public groups. I received a trial DLR radio today and I really doubt I could have made it work without this forum!!

My issue was that my DTR radios have a non-default public group. It seems I need to reprogram my DTR radios to a different public group (ID >20) so I can then program that public group on the DLR. Anyways with this forum I was able to get one DTR to work with my test DLR using public groups.

iI do wonder why Moto, n their infinite wisdom, won’t let me program public groups 1-20?

That is a question that only Motorola engineers can answer. It appears the public groups 1 to 20 are reserved for the internal programming of the DLR. I am just happy that Motorola is not just still selling the DTRs, they are actively upgrading them over the years. (They are just not marketing them much.) The DTRs are up to generation 3, which is nice, and they added the DLR line (which I love.)

One thing to keep in mind for people reading this forum on how to simply integrate DTR and DLR radios into the same system, the easiest way if you don’t have a lot of groups already programmed into your DTR system, is to just return both the DTR and DLR to their factory default settings. This way, you don’t need any cables or software; it can be done right from the front panels of both.

But, as you found, once you have groups programmed into your DTRs, it takes a bit of reprogramming, and especially changing group numbers so they are 21 and above. No one here knows why, but it took a LOT of trial and error to determine this. Even Motorola couldn’t help us. (Some of us even added to Motorola’s knowledge of their own radios, believe it or not.)

Let us know your experience with the new DLR radio. In my back-to-back tests of DTRs with the three antennas (DTR410, DTR550 with the quarter-wave, DTR550 with the half wave) and the DLR, I found the DLR had virtually the same range as the DTR with the short stubby antenna, and the DLR beat even the best commercial or amateur radios on both GMRS and MURS for maximum range. They are, of course, still line of sight, and don’t refute the laws of physics, but they can really punch through both trees and building with ease.

I ended up reprogramming all our DTR radios (14 of them). In the end it may have been a good thing to do. I changed the group to a >20 number but also took the time to verify mic gain settings, volume settings, etc. Some of the settings were wrong, but I can only blame myself. It wasn’t too bad to do.

My current dilemma is if I should stay with my public group or move everyone to a private group. Private is good until I need to add a radio. Does anyone have thoughts on this topic??

I did notice three issues with the DLR today

First I can not send a contact over-the-air to a DLR radio. It’s a quick way to add contacts that I use on DTRs

The second issue is a usability issue. As we know, there is a tone and delay after pushing PTT. On the DTR the tone is long and you can talk right after the tone ends, (the tone takes up the entire delay period). On the DTR the tone is shorter in duration yet the delay period is the same. The result is your can NOT talk after the tone but must wait a second or so. I think it is easier to train people the talk after the tone vs talk after a 1 second delay after the tone. I am guessing Motorola did the shorter tone as a marketing decision to fake a shorter PTT delay.

Last issue is that I want to be able to program a button to exit private mode instead of waiting for a timeout.

-Eric

PS I did chat with a Motorola rep at a trade show the other week about a feature request - I want auto gain on the mic. If someone yells into the mic or holds it too close the volume should lower and if they speak softly the volume should rise up. The rep told me this was not technically possible to do. I told him that many TV set do this so does a $70 Roku. I don’t think he liked my answer but I hope he passes it on :slight_smile: I also asked why the audio delay was so long, he said some thing about analog to digital. I asked why that wasn’t an issue when I Skype from the USA to Australia…He was not very knowledgeable on spread spectrum and I still don’t have a technical answer on the delay.

Dunno about the rest of it, but the delay is the nature of the digital radios. They send ID codes and handshaking information ahead (which is why you can still speak 1 to 1 privately when you’re on the same channel as others) and also digitizing the audio signal takes time. There’s also error correction and so on. The digital baud rate is likely very slow as these are VERY old radios.

For me, the latency (delay) was a show-stopper for me, and I’ve since sold all my DTRs and gone back to analog radios.

Now you know why some of us have even educated Motorola on these radios. Few reps know much about them.

We even picked up a mistake in the early version of the manuals and communicated that to Motorola. (It had to do with setting mic gain, and high ambient noise areas requiring a “high” setting, versus the manual that said the opposite.) Auto gain would be nice but auto gain on anything except the most sophisticated equipment can sometimes cause its own problems. Manual is a bit of a pain to set, especially if one goes from indoors to outdoors, especially in windy conditions but the nice thing is that mic gain can be set separately for the built-in mic and external accessory mic, and gain controls are very effective and result in significant improvement in sound.

That is a good point though, and I have never really thought of how many other radios use automatic gain control. As far as I know, only the most sophisticated digital radios use it. When digital first came out, some early adopters went back to analog because they found digital would degenerate into mush when used beside loud machinery or things like firefighter alarms. This is where improvements in design, auto gain controls and better education for end users made significant improvements. There seems to be no technical reason why auto gain couldn’t be used on the DTRs, although I suspect it is not just an added firmware issue.

I suspect Motorola’s reserving IDs 1 through 20 in addition to the internal workings might be for future DLR models and hopefully future DTR models. Gimme a 20 channel DLR model and call it a DLR1200. Gimme an updated DTR that can also program like a DLR and call it a DTR750 or something like that.

I’m getting a fleet of DLRs to add to my fleet of DTR650 radios. The DTRs are excellent but there are times when the super small size and simplicity of the DLRs is all I need. It’s nice for when I want to be more stealthy with a radio instead of implying a more professional look with the DTRs. LOL, I should have kept the original pair of DLR1060 radios I had 2 years ago before getting my DTRs. My wife loves using these radios with me when we are out shopping or doing whatever. They are perfect radios for her. I’m keeping GMRS/FRS and MURS as backups. What’s changed for me is I migrated my local non-HAM on-site simplex type radio communications to the DTRs and DLRs because they work so well.

My DLR and DTR performance compared to UHF Part 90 radios on GMRS matches your experiences. I’m seriously hooked on the DTRs and DLRs and is why I migrated my local on-site simplex type radio use from GMRS/FRS and MURS to the DTRs and soon to be DLRs again. I ordered a fleet of DLR1060s and a MUC for them from BuyTwoWayRadios.com. They were out of stock when I ordered them and had to wait for more to be shipped from Motorola. I suspect and hoping they were temporarily out of stock because they are getting popular and Motorola is building them as fast as they can. Mine are expected to be delivered to me tomorrow.

I’m keeping my DTR and DLR programming close to the factory default settings. I have public groups 1-6 on channel/hopset 1 programmed into my DTRs to match default channels 1-6 in the DLRs. I also added a private group on channel/hopset 1 in my DTRs and made it the Home Group. Talkgroup Scan is enabled. I have occasionally heard a little bit of activity from other DTR/DLR users on Public Groups 1-5 when traveling through urban areas. I suspect casual DTR and DLR users will simply use them as they come out of the box like GMRS/FRS bubble pack radios and won’t customize the programming with the CPS.

In the DLRs I plan to leave channels 1-5 at the default and use channel 6 for a private group in the DLRs to work with my private group in the DTRs. The Profile in the DLRs will stay at 0000 (default). I’ll have to add the ESNs of all DLRs to my DTR programming and add the ESNs of all DTRs to my DLR programming. I’ve played with both in the CPS and it looks like it should work.

Nice! I have a combo of DTR and DLR, and there is a place for both.

It is fun to spot where the DTRs are in use. Here in Canada, I see them at the Apple store and the local cinemaplex.

With so many cheap Chinese radios on the market, it is great to see people who still want the best quality they can have in a relatively private, commercial-grade, licence-free two way radio. And buytwowayradios is my go-to place. I love those folks and it is nice to see that maybe sending me a free DLR a few years ago is really paying off for them. (Mention you read my posts on a forum.)

They still haven’t asked for it back, so I am hoping they just forget about it. Plus, of course I have no ordered ten radios from them in the past two years, and just unwrapped my latest (KG-UV9D) yesterday.

I closely examined how I actually have been using 2-way radios over the years. For my non-Ham radio communications, when I’m not using DMR on a friend’s UHF business radio system, and not on Amateur Radio, I am always on GMRS/FRS and once in a very long while on VHF MURS. It’s all local on-site simplex type operations with family and friends. If I were a casual GMRS/FRS user instead of the EMI/EMC Engineer and radio geek that I am, GMRS/FRS bubble pack radios would be sufficient for my needs. I’ve been using good commercial radios on GMRS and after 26 years of using GMRS, I want something higher quality and more professional than GMRS/FRS. With the DTRs and DLRs I no longer have any need for GMRS/FRS and VHF MURS. They are now my backups. The DTRs and DLRs are now primary for my non-ham local on-site simplex type use because they work so well.

I received my DLR1060 radios last night and immediately unpacked them and went to work on programming them using the CPS. I also have a Multi-Unit Charger (MUC) for them. I left channels 1-5 at the defaults (Profile ID=0000, channel/hopset=1) and set up a private group on channel/hopset 1. The private group is assigned to DLR channel 6. My private group in my DTRs is also on channel/hopset 1. I added the IDs of my DTRs to the DLR programming so that part is done. Tonight I plan to update my DTR programming to add the DLR radio IDs to them and add them to the private group. I should be able to get all 6 of my DTR650s and all 6 DLR1060 radios talking to each other on the private group.

For DLR features, I enabled the start of incoming group call and roger beep tones. They are MUCH less obnoxious than the DTR tones. A welcome improvement. I also customized the radio and channel names. I checked the box in the CPS to enable the radio name based on the contact name so the CPS figures out what radio name to assign when I write to each radio.

The build date on the DLRs is December 22, 2017. Freshly manufactured and less than a month old! That explains why I had to wait a week for them to arrive at BuyTwoWayRadios before they could ship them to me. I am very happy with the folks at BuyTwoWayRadios.com.