New DLR radios - compatible with DTR

Everything Else Professional Radios
1

These new radios don’t have the features of the DTR, but they supposedly are compatible in terms of their frequency-hopping algorithms, so they can communicate with each other.

DLR1060 Product Page

What’s really interesting, is the CPS software for them also supports the DTR. The software is browser-based and seems to work just fine. It’s a little simpler to use than the DTR software, but looks to have all the configuration options needed for the DTR.

Hopefully this is a sign that Moto might come out with a new DTR or a more-capable DLR that updates and improves on the DTR.

2

The CPS software is here.

3

I just got a sample DLR1060 radio in the mail today, and tested it against my DTR radios. I really like this radio, and I think it is an ideal choice for certain users. But it is not a DTR and doesn’t have all the DTR features. Plus, it may perform on par with DTRs but it still looks like a bubble-pack FRS radio.

Now that may not be an important consideration for some people, but for others, it does mean something. (Especially in environments where someone holding an official-looking walkie is seen to belong there.)

I am sharing some preliminary notes, and will add more as I learn more.

First, it uses a Motorola BP90 battery, rated at 1800 mah. For comparison, the standard DTR550 battery is 1200 mah, and the extended battery in the DTR650 is 1500 mah. (Any DTR radio can be upgraded to the extended 1500 mah battery.) The DLR1060 does not use an LCD screen with backlight; instead it uses one LED plus voice prompts. Battery life should be slightly better than the DTR but in my early tests, I am finding it a bit shorter than the DTR with the 1500 mah battery. Here are the battery life ratings from Motorola:
DLR 1800 mah battery = 14 hours
DTR 1200 mah battery = 14.5 hours
DTR 1500 mah battery = 19 hours
I see no reason to doubt these figures.

The CPS is no better. It is still confusing. Just prettier. (More on that below.)

The DLR meet military standard 810 C, D, E, F and G. It is protected from heat, cold, humidity, dust, shock and vibration. The DTR meets military standard 810 C, D, E and F. It is protected from all of the above PLUS rain. This means that the DTR is more protected from water splashes and rain than the newer DLR.

Range, surprisingly, is nearly identical to the DTR. On my usual range test course through a very dense urban neighborhood, I was able to raise a DTR sitting upright inside my car at about 15 city blocks away. The signal must make it through my car, my house, and another 15 blocks full of old homes and dense mature elm trees. That is an AMAZING performance for any two-way UHF radio! (Mind you, my DTR radios have always surprised me with their range capability.) The DLR has a fixed antenna, much like the DTR410. Compared to the DTR with the short quarter-wave replaceable antenna, there was only a few feet difference in range.

So, my rough city range numbers were as follows:
DTR410 with fixed stubby antenna = about 13 city blocks
DLR1060 with fixed stubby antenna = about 15 city blocks
DTR550 with 3 1/2" quarter-wave antenna = about 15 city blocks
DTR550 with 7" half-wave antenna = about 16 city blocks

Now, range estimations will vary widely from user to user, depending on what is between the two radios. Plus, two-way radios are VERY dependant on antenna height, so if one loses a signal while hooked to a belt, they can often regain it just by holding it above their head.

Now, the big issue for me is readability, clarity and signal strength. If I were to rate the DTRs as among the best in their class at 5 by 5, I would say the DLRs are at least 4 by 5. The DLR has a slightly smaller speaker and audio output of .75W, while the DTR has a more rugged and business-class speaker and 1W audio output. Both radios are 1W RF output. The DLR sounds just slightly more muffled than the DTR.

So, what’s not to like? Well, it took a lot of work to figure out how to program DLR radios to talk to an existing network of DTR radios. The DLR uses a new Profile ID system to check radios within range to ensure they are on the proper network (or “group” as Motorola refers to it as.) To talk to each other, all DTR and DLR radios must be on the same channel and the same ID number. The DTR radios use 10 channels, plus 100 group ID numbers. (Each ID number can only be used once, but that is a possible combination of over 950 “channels” to choose from.) The DLR radios come from the factory with preprogrammed channels, sbut can be reprogrammed with up to 18 channels and 10,000 Profile ID numbers.

The DTR can have as many as about 950 combinations, while the DLR can have about 200,000 combinations of unique channel/ID number. Out of the box, DLR radios will only communicate with DTR radios if they are both set to their factor defaults. Channel 1 on the DLR corresponds to Public Group 1 on the DTR, and so on.

To get DLR radios to communicate with an existing net of DTR radios that have already been custom-programmed takes a bit of work, plus the optional programming cable the the free Customer Programming Software from Motorola.

So, to sum up, if I were to score out of 5:
RANGE
DTR = 5
DLR = 5

CLARITY
DTR = 5
DLR = 4

BATTERY LIFE
DTR = 5
DLR = 4

RUGGEDNESS
DTR = 5
DLR = 4

COMPACTNESS
DTR = 4
DLR = 5

VALUE FOR MONEY
DTR = 4
DLR = 5

I love these new radios. I am not going to replace my fleet of DTRs with them, but they make a great addition. Plus, if I had no 900MHz frequency-hopping, licence-free radios, I would look closely at both the DTR and DLR line.

4

Great write-up and review! Thanks, Chickenhawk!

I don’t think the DLR are a great replacement for the DTR, but it’d be interesting to see if it means Moto might come out with a successor to the DTR.

The other problem is that the DLR is supposed to integrate with DTR radios, but the DTR uses a two-digit unit ID number, and the DLR uses a four-digit Profile ID number. I know that DTR channel 1, Unit ID 1, corresponds tp the DLR channel 1, Profile ID 0000. (The factory defaults.) But for the life of me, I cannot get a DLR to talk to a DTR anywhere except the factory default channel 1.

Unless someone here can help, it looks like a long and frustrating phone call to Motorola is in order. Rats.

From the manual, it says:

If you have DTR radios with customized
settings and/or private groups, and need to add
DLR radios, make sure to use the DLR CPS
software(*) in order to create a compatible
configuration in the DLR radios. The same
applies if DTR radios are to be added to an
existing DLR radio fleet.

Do you have the programming cable to give this a try? As you know, the DLR software works with the DTR too.

5

It took a while but I have figured out the programming of the DTR and DLR radios to talk to each other. There are actually two different ways, if one needs to integrate now DLRs into an existing fleet of DTRs. One is simple and requires no cables or software; the other takes more work but is more secure.

About the only other downside I can see for the DLR is that the size looks a bit like a bubble-pack FRS radio. This may only be important if users are operating in environments where the sight of a “business class” radio may impart some professionalism at a glance.

6

Looks like using the CPS is the way to get the radios working with each other.

I don’t have a DLR radio, but I can still create a DLR profile and add the DTR to it.

7

The DTR uses Group ID numbers from 1 to 100, but the DLR uses a four-digit profile ID. One can get them to talk if left on factory default settings, but to program them into an existing fleet of DTR radios, requires getting the DLR radios to listen for Group ID numbers instead of Profile ID numbers. Thankfully, the new DLR can do both.

8

Awesome awesome awesome! Thanks for doing all these write ups. I’m going to have to get an order in for some DLRs right away!

As for moto be dense and not writing manuals, we should just write our own on here. I doubt there is that much we don’t collectively know about these radios

9

Mike, I think that is the way it is going. Andy has done a lot to advance our understanding.

As for the DLR radios, I think they are an ideal radio for many users. If you want a high-quality, licence-free radio that is virtually private, interference-free and has one of the longest ranges of any UHF radio, get your order in!

I had problems integrating them into my DTR fleet, but that is now solved.

if you don’t have DTRs, then get the DLRs. You will love them. And, as I said, just forget the programming cable and do them manually. All you need to do when you get your radios is set them all to the same four-digit Profile ID number. It is as simple as holding down +, PTT and power buttons, and HOLD them all down until it announces it is in programming mode. Then push the bottom (menu) button and follow the voice prompts to set each digit. Trust me; it is faster to set your own unique code than it is to read this paragraph.

By the way, the company who provided the test sample DLR is www.buytwowayradios.com. They are great folks, and they got me a test sample radio up to me here in Canada in three days. I have always had great service from them. It shows out of stock on their web site but that only means they are selling as fast as they can get them in. I highly recommend those folks.

10

Thanks for the info Chickenhawk!

I have a fleet of 90+ DTR radios with a highly customized private group design, and have spent tons of time in the older CPS. I’be got two DLRs on order now (with prog cable) and my goal will be to figure out how to integrate them.

The manual gives lots of hints but I need to give it a try (I’m guessing they may have scrambled the terminology between the series, like a DLR profile ID might be the DTR channel, and the DLR channel is likely the DTR private group name, etc…)

Certain the biggest tantalizing nugget in the manual is the blurb:
If you have DTR radios with customized settings and/or private groups, and need to add DLR radios, make sure to use the DLR CPS software(*) in order to create a compatible configuration in the DLR radios. The same applies if DTR radios are to be added to an existing DLR radio fleet. For more details on DTR and DLR compatibility please contact your Motorola point of sale.

But all we can do is be on the lookout for any compatibility docs. (Andy in particular because he has access to things not everyone can get to :slight_smile: )

11

I think between all of us, we may be able to figure this out. So far, i have found the ONLY common connection is channel 1, Profile ID 0000 on the DLR and channel 1, group ID 1 on the DTR. I tried every other channel on the DLR set to 0000 and the DTR set to the same channel plus group ID 1, but no dice.

To communicate, I created a new group on my DTRs called Public 1, and set that to channel 1, group ID 1. It is better than nothing right now. I also changed my DTR settings so it stays on the channel you scroll to, instead of reverting to the home channel after 30 seconds. I needed to do this to perform my range tests on the DLR by myself.

12

Chickenhawk,

Do you still have your DLRs (and prog cable for CPS) or did you send them back? While I should have my DLRs this week I doubt I’ll have time to work on them till the weekend after next

13

I still have them. I am passing them along to a local theatre company to try out for a week, but will get them back. They are looking for good, licence-free radios to use outside the building or beyond the range of their wireless duplex intercoms, and because they gave me a sample radio, I am “passing it on” to another potential customer.

14

Just got my DLR1060s in the mail - wow are they small!

The box:

Size compare - the pictures don’t do it justice, the DLRs feel like they are the size of two DTR batteries end-to-end, super tiny as compared to the DTRs

Picture of the headset ports (which I couldn’t find online anywhere previously) Very handy that the plastic goes down as most headsets cords go up (and mangle the flap on the DTRs). Can clearly see the connector isn’t as beefy as the DTR - not sure how it will wear over time.

Batteries are charging now, so I hope to be able to play with them some tonight/over-the-week.

More reports to come!

15

Very cool, Mike!

I’m very interested in how compatible the private groups are. Let me know when you’ve done some programming.
I look forward to hearing your thoughts on these radios.

16

First discoveries on the new CPS and radios:

[ul]
[li]The new CPS will read old configs (Yah!)
[/li]nr[li]Its not obvious in this new CPS how you mix the radio types. (Boo!)
[/li]nr[li]DTR channel seems to be supported via DLR “Frequency Hopset” (On the DLR side, click on “Switch to ADVANCE” then unselect the “Profile ID Number Lock” checkbox. Once complete you can set the “Frequency Hopset” value to the same as the channel value on the DTR)
[/li]nr[li]I was able to the DLR talking to the DTR by hand entering the DTRs config while CPS was on the DLR profile (as “Privates (Advanced)”). I was then able to switch to BASIC mode, set my DLRs “Proframmable Button” to “Direct Call” and set the “Direct Call” pull down to my hand typed in DTR. After writing that program to DLR, it could direct call the DTR - with the DTR being on a non-1 channel
[/li][/ul]

I’m definitely a bit baffled on the right way to mix the DLR and DTR radios (I only have the DLR programming cable out at the moment, so I’m a bit hobbled in my experiments).

I know if you add a DLR to a DTR profile (by id) and you try a “Write to radio” that is seems to start to write and then you get “The profile is not supported by the radio”.

In a DLR profile I added a DTR by id (id by scanner doesn’t seem to be supported on DLRs) for the test above, but unless I do find that the DLR profile will allow me to write to DTR radios, its going to be a real bear to config a mixed fleet.

17

Does it not work the way I’ve shown?

18

Thank you to Andy, Chickenhawk and Mike for this discussion. I’m in the midst of evaluating Moto radios for a theatre company and your insights are very helpful.

19

You showed the creation of a profile for a DLR.

Was that able to write to a DTR? If so, then that likely is the solution. I don’t have my DTR programming cable on me at the moment, so I haven’t been able to try.

What I know DOESN’T work is trying to write to a DLR radio from a DTR profile (though you can add the ID of a DLR radio to the DTR profile, but that still doesn’t let it write to the radio)

Update: I just pulled up DTR CPS cable and tried - Now I’m confused.

New “Business Radio CPS” (3.01) always gives “Communication Error. For RM and RMM series radios, please toggle the USB cable to Analog (CPS) mode. For DLR Series radio, please toggle the USB cable to DIGITAL (Flash) mode”. Regardless of DLR or DTR profile

Old “DTR CPS” (3.02 - man these version numbers are confusing!) works just fine…

Update on update: Rebooted and “Business Radio CPS” could write to the DTR – but only if the profile was a DTR profile. The profile that started out as a DLR profile (even though the id of the DTR is in there, gives the error “The profile is not supported by the radio” when I try and write the DLR profile.

… So, thus far, the only way I’ve got thing to work is by making BOTH a DTR and a DLR profile, and making them roughly copies of each other – not an easy path.

20

That was a DLR profile, and I added DTR to it. You could do the same but in reverse. Open your DTR profile and add the DLR to it, by reading it’s ID from the radio. It’s Home-Home-Home-PTT on the DTR, not sure the command on the DLR.

What I know DOESN’T work is trying to write to a DLR radio from a DTR profile (though you can add the ID of a DLR radio to the DTR profile, but that still doesn’t let it write to the radio)

I wouldn’t think that it could.

Update: I just pulled up DTR CPS cable and tried - Now I’m confused.

New “Business Radio CPS” (3.01) always gives “Communication Error. For RM and RMM series radios, please toggle the USB cable to Analog (CPS) mode. For DLR Series radio, please toggle the USB cable to DIGITAL (Flash) mode”. Regardless of DLR or DTR profile

Old “DTR CPS” (3.02 - man these version numbers are confusing!) works just fine…

Why use any of that old software, use the DLR editor I linked to above. It works with the DTR and the DLR, as well as other radios.