New DLR radios - compatible with DTR

Everything Else Professional Radios
41

UPDATE: I got all of my DTRs and DLRs talking to each other in a Private Group. :banana:

The one gotcha was I forgot to enter the Private Group ID from the first group of radios into the second group so the private group ID matches in both groups of radios (DLR group and DTR group). DLRs could talk to all DLRs in its private group and DTRs could talk to all DTRs in its private group but DTRs couldn’t talk to DLRs in the private group and vice versa. I had all individual Privates in each radio but the DLR’s private group ID was different from the DTR’s private group ID. The default private group ID is the ID of the first radio in the private group when you create the group. Since I was already done programming the DLRs and was working on the DTRs, I entered the private group ID from the DLRs into the DTRs as the private group ID and and then it all worked.

DLR channels 1-5 are the DLR default channels 1-5 (Profile ID = 0000).
DLR channel 6 is used for my Private Group.
All DLR channels are on channel/frequency/hopset 1 (default).

The pic showing the DTR display is on one of the public groups because I’m not going to display the actual name of my private group in a public forum. The name assigned to a DLR radio in my DTR programming displays correctly on the DTR.

42

You have taken this way beyond what i have. I never felt the need for private groups, so it is great to see you utilize those capabilities. The other thing I never explored was to list the DLR in with a DTR contact group beyond simply the default number. I see you managed to name the DLRs in the DTR contacts.

43

It turns out it wasn’t hard to get a private group set up in the DLRs and get them working with the DTRs. I added my DTRs to my DLR programming and added the DLRs to my DTR programming. All of my DLRs and all of my DTRs now work with each other in a single Private Group.

Creating a private group in a DLR is no different from a DTR. It works exactly the same. You then need to map the Private Group to one of the DLR channels 1 thru 6 so you can access it. I used DLR channel 6 for my Private Group and kept DLR channels 1-5 at the default. The DLR’s Profile ID is staying at 0000 (default). The Profile ID does not apply to a Private Group so changing the Profile ID only affects my DLR channels 1-5 because they are still at the default (Profile ID lock = On).

EDIT: I was wrong about what the Profile ID affects. Changing the profile ID affects the entire radio by modifying the particular hopset used or modifies the hopping algorithm on the particular hopset. Not sure what it actually does but it affects the entire radio. I tested this by changing the Profile ID on 2 of my 6 DLRs and found they will talk to each other like they did before but no longer talk to the other DLRs at all, including on my Private Group. The channel and group mappings aren’t affected but EVERYTHING is now operating on a modified hopset or a modified hopping algorithm on the same hopset. I’m leaving the Profile ID at 0000 (default) to be able to work with my DTRs.

I customized the DLR channel names so it says “Public 1, Public 2” etc. to match the default public group names in the DTRs. I also named my private group. The radio name is based on the radio’s own Private ID name so the CPS automatically figures out the radio name when I write the same codeplug to each DLR radio. I checked the box to use the radio’s own Private ID name as the radio name. The radio plays the radio name and channel name at power up. A short button press on the power button plays the battery status (default).

Naming a DLR in the DTR contacts is identical to naming another DTR in the DTR contacts. A DTR doesn’t care whether the contact being added is a DTR or a DLR radio since it only knows other radios by the 11-digit Private ID.

When entering private contacts into my DLR programming to add the the DTRs and other DLRs, I tried reading them over the air. It didn’t work and an error message popped up about an ID already in use. I did not try to debug it and ended up manually entering the 11-digit Private ID for each contact.

When entering private contacts into my DTR programming to add the DLR Privates, I tried reading them over the air and it didn’t work there either. When reading an ID over the air from another DTR, you do the 3-button press followed by PTT to get the DTR to send its ID to the DTR being programmed by the CPS. I’ve done it with my DTRs but it doesn’t work with the DLRs. The DLR doesn’t have a magic button press trick that I know of to send a DLR’s ID to a DTR being programmed. I ended up manually entering the DLR’s Private IDs to my DTR programming like I had to do with the DLRs. The bottom line is reading a DLR’s ID over the air into a DTR doesn’t work and the ID has to be entered manually.

44

I was thinking more about the Profile ID and Private Groups. If you wanted to make a group of DLR radios absolutely as secure as possible, I recommend setting the Profile ID to something other than the 0000 default AND set up a Private Group. The Profile ID would add a layer of security on top of a Private Group, something DTR radios can’t do.

It would be nice if Motorola would update the DTR firmware to add the Profile ID feature to the DTRs. Maybe it will be included in a future DTR model someday, if that ever happens. :slight_smile:

According to Motorola, DLR = Digital Lightweight Radio

45

It turns out it wasn’t hard to get a private group set up in the DLRs and get them working with the DTRs.

Well done n1das! :hello2:

Your writeup caused me to pull out my test DLRs and see if I could make any more progress getting them in my DTR config!

After banging-my-head for few hours, your writeup has definitely moved me forward, but its seems like I’m still stuck (though I’m doing weird enough things it might not hurt anyone else).

My two big issue are:

  1. Sync’ing two configs by hand sucks
    I have 120 DTRs all wound into a fairly complex config (13 different private groups)

    The method you’ve outline for getting the radios to work together works, but I have to sync every group and direct-call radio BY HAND between the two configs. If this was my only issue I might be able to put up with it, but the following issue currently still sinks me.

  2. DLR software gets mad if you have private-groups your not-a-member of in your channel(scroll) list
    One feature of the DTR radios that I use heavily (unsure if its intended) is that if you:
    [ul]
    [li]Add a private-group to the scroll list of a radio -BUT-[/li]nr[li]the given radios ISN’T A MEMBER of that private group[/li][/ul]
    You make the radio user able to temporally add themselves to private-group (its as-though the radio supports scanning 6 private-groups, even though the software only lets you set 5, because the 6th group is set by the user scrolling to the group via the scroll-list)

    I use this feature heavily to keep chatty groups from drowning out each-other.

    Unfortunately on the DLRs
    When I configure this trick in the software and try and write the config to the radios I get a warning:


    "Warning: The radio being programmed is not a member of the channel mapping private group, the channel mapping will reset to Profile ID mode. Do you want to continue?"


    If I click “ok” I end up with the radios that aren’t-a-member able to scroll to the channel, but if they key, they don’t key to other radios in the group (even if DLRs) and (while on that channel) don’t hear from any radios transmitting on the group. (presumably because software decided to reconfigure the not-in-group radios to have the channel in “Profile ID” mode, not in “private group” mode)

    … so very different behavor then the DTRs and something that unless I find a work around will still block me from using DLRs in my DTR fleet

Once every year or so I do a search looking for more info on integrating with DTRs - @n1das you certainly moved me forward a bunch, thanks again for that!! (but I’ve got a way yet to go.)

Thanks again everyone for sharing on here - sure feel good to find other people trying to work through DTR/DLR stuff!

46

BUMPing this thread back to life. :slight_smile:

Motorola appears to be committed to keeping 900MHz digital on-site business radios on the market. Motorola appears to have a new DTR series model in the works, the DTR700. I expect it will combine features of the DTR and DLR radios, exactly what I’m hoping Motorola does in a future model.

https://www.radiotwoway.com/Motorola_DTR700_New_Portable_Radio

Available Q4/2018. Price = ???

I started a separate thread about the DTR700:
http://www.checkcheckonetwo.com/forum/showthread.php?1638-New-Motorola-DTR700-model-in-the-works-available-Q4-2018

47

Hello, how are you?
Please, I would like to know who was able to make the communication between the dtr 620 and the dlr1060 as it is done. I need this configuration a lot

48

EDIT to my earlier EDIT: Turns out I was wrong about how the 4-digit profile and Profile IDs work. I did some experiments with my DLR and DTR programming to learn more about both radios. I did this as part of my anticipation of getting some new DTR700 radios very soon which program like the DLRs. I’ve been thinking about how to best integrate them into my fleet of DTRs and fleet of DLRs.

The DTR 550/650 have Public and Private Groups available to the end user. No Private Groups are available in the DTR410, IIRC. The DLRs refer to Channels instead of Talkgroups for the end user. The concept of a channel seems to be easier for the average user to grasp (i.e., WTH is a talkgroup?), similar to channels in a conventional VHF or UHF radio. Channels in the DLRs have 3 modes available: Profile ID, Public Group, and Private Group. The Profile ID mode includes Call All Available and Page All Available. These are new features which the DTR 410/550/650 don’t have.

The 4-digit Profile only affects Profile ID mode channels. The default Profile is 0000 (OFF). The 4-digit Profile does NOT affect Public and Private Groups in the DLRs. I was wrong about this earlier. Available DLR Profile IDs are 1-18 plus Call All Available (ID=20?) and Page All Available (ID=19?).

DLR Public Groups program and operate like Public Groups in the DTRs, with the caveat that group IDs start at 21 given that IDs 1 through 20 are reserved for Profile ID mode channels. If you just want DLRs to work with older DTRs in Public Groups with IDs 1-18, leave the DLR Profile set at 0000 (Off, default) and leave the DLR channels as Profile ID mode channels (default). When the Profile is at 0000 (Off), Profile ID mode channels in the DLRs are equivalent to Public Groups in the older DTRs with IDs 1-18. I’m not sure what would happen if a DTR used public group IDs 19 and 20 when talking to a DLR. IDs 20 and 19 appear to be reserved for Call All Available and Page All Available in the DLRs.

Private Groups in the DLRs program and operate identical to Private Groups in the DTRs. I currently have my fleet of DTR650s and fleet of DLR1060s all working together in a Private Group.

The Profile ID channel mode (default) and 4-digit radio Profile makes it insanely easy to secure a fleet of DLRs without using the CPS. It is not as secure as setting up a Private Group because more radios can be added to the fleet. Individual DLR radios don’t need to have the Private IDs of all members of the group stored in them like with a Private Group in older DTRs. Profile ID mode should be secure enough for most users. To add new DLR radios to an existing fleet of DLRs assuming all channels are at the factory defaults, simply set the 4-digit Profile on the new DLRs to match what the fleet uses and you are done.

I am finding I like the DLR way of programming. Some good new features were added. I am not surprised the new DTR600 and DTR700 adopted the DLR way of programming.

49

The DLRs and the new DTR 600/700 added Page All Available and Call All Available features which the older DTR 410/550/650 don’t have. These are new features and are used to perform “all call” type functions when working with groups of DLRs. I did some experiments with my fleet of DLRs to help understand the features and help understand their interaction with older DTR 410/550/650 radios. A DTR650 was included in my experiments.

DLR Page All Available (Profile ID) = Public Group ID 19 in DTR 410/550/650 radios. Page All Available does a one-way page to all DLR radios currently not engaged in a group call or private call. A receiving DLR radio can only directly respond to the page using the Private Reply feature within a 4 second hang time. This works across multiple groups on the same hopset. This is useful for paging users that may be on different channels without having to manually switch to each individual channel to talk to them.

DLR Call All Available (Profile ID) = Public Group ID 20 in DTR 410/550/650 radios. Call All Available works across multiple groups on the same hopset like Page All Available but throws all responding DLR radios into a temporary supergroup with a 4 second hang time. Users can chit chat back and forth on this supergroup without bothering other users that were busy earlier. All DLR radios responding to the Call All Available return to their normal group after the 4 second hang time expires.

6 DLR1060 radios and 1 DTR650 radio were used for experiments. I used my entire fleet of DLRs for experimenting.

DLR Profile in all DLRs = 0000 (OFF, default) for compatibility with DTR 410/550/650 Public Groups 1-20. The 4-digit profile affects all DLR channels operating in Profile ID mode. The profile does not affect Public or Private Groups. The 0000 default was used so I could test the interaction between DLRs and my DTR650.

Frequency hopset used in all radios = 1 (default) . This is Channel 1 in DTR 410/550/650 nomenclature.

DLR programming for experiments:
DLR 1: Channels 1-6 = Profile ID mode with Profile IDs 1-6 (default). Factory default programming.
DLR 2: Channels 1-6 = Profile ID mode with Profile IDs 7-12.
DLR 3: Channels 1-6 = Profile ID mode with Profile IDs 13-18.
DLR 4: Channels 1-2 = Public Group mode with Public IDs 21-22. Channels 3-6 deleted. This tests a DLR’s response when operating on Public Group mode channels like a DTR 410/550/650.
DLR 5: Channel 1 = Private Group which works with my DTR650s. Channels 2-6 deleted. This tests a DLR’s response when operating on Private Group mode channels. Private Groups program and operate identical to Private Groups in DTR 550/650 radios. No Private Groups are available in the DTR410, IIRC.
DLR 6: Channel 1 = Page All Available (ID=19), Channel 2 = Call All Available (ID=20). Channels 3-6 deleted. This is the DLR radio I will use to send Page All Available and Call All Available commands to all other radios to test how they respond.

DTR650 programming for experiments:
Frequency hopset = 1 aka Channel 1 in DTR 410/550/650 nomenclature.
Private Group = My DTR’s Private Group.
Public Groups = 1-6, for compatibility with DLR channels 1-6 default programming.
Public groups 19 and 20 are programmed to test how a DLR responds to a DTR650 using public groups 19 (DLR Page All Available) and 20 (DLR Call All Available.
Public groups 21 and 22 are programmed to test public group operation with DLR4.

Quick SanityCheck, aka Null Experiment:
I did a quick sanity check of the programming on all radios before experimenting with the Page All Available and Call All Available features.

DLR1 using Profile IDs 1-6 talks to my DTR650 on public groups 1-6 as expected. Everything works as expected. DLR1 does not talk to any other DLRs due to their different programming.
DLR2 using Profile IDs 7-12 does not talk to any other radios due to no other radio in range using the same IDs.
DLR3 using Profile IDs 13-18 does not talk to any other radios due to no radios in range using the same IDs.
DLR4 talks to my DTR650 on public groups 21 and 22 and does not talk to any other DLR due their different programming.
DLR5 talks to my DTR650 on my Private Group in the DTR650 and does not talk to any other DLR radio.
DLR6 talks to my DTR650 on public groups 19 and 20. All other DLRs respond to Page All Available (ID=19) and Call All Available (ID=20).

Results using Page All Available (ID=19):
ALL DLR radios respond to DLR6 which transmitted on Profile ID = Page All Available. All DLR radios respond regardless of the channel mode and ID they are using provided they are on the same frequency hopset. I assume a DLR radio using a different hopset wouldn’t respond but I have not tested this. Given that ALL DLRs responded to the Page All Available from DLR6, this also included my Private Group in DLR5. This was a bit of a surprise! The Page All Available function effectively interrupts my Private Group if it is not currently in use. This behavior is different from a Private Group in a DTR650 where a DTR won’t respond at all if a radio is not a member of the private group. My default assumption with a Private Group was that you can’t get bothered by other radios on the same hopset that are not members of the group. When I operate on a Private Group, I don’t want to be bothered by other radios that aren’t members of the group. I want it private.

The DTR650 would only respond to DLR6 transmitting Page All Available (ID=19) on Public Group ID=19 like it normally would on a public group. DLR6 did not bother my Private Group in the DTR650. The DTR650 does not have Page All Available and Call All Available features. Transmitting with the DTR650 on Public Group 19 causes all DLRs to respond to a Page All Available command like transmitting with DLR6.

When a DLR radio responds to a Page All Available, the page can only be directly replied to using the Private Reply feature before the 4 second hang time expires. Pressing PTT without using Private Reply cancels the hang time immediately and gives the 3 out of range beeps and does not transmit. Pressing PTT again operates the DLR radio on the group that it was on prior to receiving the page.

Results using Call All Available (ID=20):
Transmitting a Call All Available from DLR6 causes all DLR radios to respond like a Page All Available except the behavior is different during the 4 second hang time. The Call All Available function causes all responding DLRs to be thrown into a temporary supergroup with a 4 second hang time. Users can reply to the Call All Available and chit chat back and forth with each other before the 4 second hang time expires. DLRs that responded to the call return to the group they were using prior to the call after the hang time expires. The Private Reply feature is disabled while the Call All Available supergroup is active.

The DTR650 would only respond to DLR6 transmitting Call All Available (ID=20) on Public Group ID=20 like it normally would on a public group. Transmitting with the DTR650 on Public Group 20 causes all DLRs to respond to a Call All Available command like transmitting with DLR6.

Notes:
Given that the Page All Available and Call All Available features cause receiving DLRs to respond regardless of what channel mode and ID they are on, it is possible for a DLR or DTR radio (on Public Group ID 19 or 20) to wreak havoc with other groups of DLR users on the same frequency hopset.

The Page All Available and Call All Available features can be used to troll for other DLRs in the area that are operating on the factory default settings. I have monitored DLR traffic in my travels from time to time and I am finding many users are using them as they come out of the box on the factory default settings like FRS and don’t bother to change the Profile from the 0000 default. I’m probably also hearing some DTR 410/550/650 radios operating on the default public groups.

You don’t need to try pressing PTT on each DLR channel to see if you get any hits from other DLRs. Just try Page All Available or Call All Available and see if you get any hits. You can also do this on a DTR on public group IDs 19 and 20. A hit with Page All Available or Call All Available means you reached one or more DLRs out there even if they are using different IDs than you are using, including Public and Private Groups. A hit means there are other DLRs out there somewhere and using the same frequency hopset.

The only way I see to safeguard against someone trolling your DLRs and the new DTR 600/700 is to set the 4-digit Profile to something other than the 0000 default. I used 0000 to test with my DTR650 because the older DTR 410/550/650 don’t have the Profile feature. Set the DLR Profile to a 4-digit number that is easy for you to remember but hard for others to guess. For example, don’t use 1234, etc. Pick a favorite 4-digit number that you will easily remember for the rest of your life. Also consider changing the frequency hopset used to something other than the default (hopset #1) on all channels. It would be nice if the DLR programming included an option to disable responding to Page All Available and Call All Available commands and be rendered “dumb” in this regard like a DTR 410/550/650.

I explored the Page All Available and Call All Available features in the DLRs to help understand their behavior and interaction with the older DTR 410/550/650 radios. I also did this as part of preparation for my new DTR700 radios when they arrive. The new DTR 600/700 was expected to start shipping from Motorola’s factory on or around December 15, 2018. There’s a chance I might receive mine in time for the holidays. :slight_smile:

50

Damn! That’s a lot of effort, David.

Thank you for doing all that testing and posting your results. I’m sure it will help everyone that has a combination of products. Looking forward to your review of the new DTR700 when they come. A comparison of features and quality between them and the DTR650 would be very interesting.

51

I stumbled across something in the CPS that DLR1060 owners will like. I was able to “upgrade” my 6-channel DLR1060 radios by adding more channels for a total of 10 channels. Call it a DLR1100 if you will.

The DLR1060 while default programmed as a 6-channel radio actually supports up to 10 channels. The 2-channel DLR1020 only supports 2 channels. The number of channels is model dependent and is listed in the Radio Information at the top of the page. I tried adding extra channels to the 6 original channels and I was able to add 4 more channels for a total of 10 channels. The Add button stops working if you try to exceed the maximum number of channels supported by the radio.

My channel lineup:

[ul]
[li]Channels 1-6 = Default 6 Profile ID mode channels. (Public groups 1-6 in DTR 410/550/650)[/li]nr[li]Channel 7 = New Profile ID mode channel with Profile ID = 7. (Public group 7 in DTR 410/550/650)[/li]nr[li]Channel 8 = Page All Available (Public Group ID = 19 in DTR 410/550/650).[/li]nr[li]Channel 9 = Call All Available (Public Group ID = 20 in DTR 410/550/650).[/li]nr[li]Channel 10 = My DLR Private Group, works with the Private Group in my DTR650 fleet.[/li][/ul]

DLR Profile = 0000 (default, compatible with DTR 410/550/650)

A 6-channel DLR1060 radio supports up to 10 channels. Call it a DLR1100 radio! :hello2::eusa_clap::eusa_dance::headbang:

EDIT: Early DLR1060 radios only support 6 channels. Newer DLR1060 radios support 10 channels. I don’t know when the change happened. I owned a pair of DLR1060 radios back in 2015, about a month after they first started shipping from Motorola. I later sold them to a ham friend / co-worker and he loves them. I sold my original pair of DLR1060s after getting my fleet of DTR650 radios in January 2017 and that’s when I found this site. I looked at a codeplug file I had saved from them and the radio information at the top of the page in the CPS shows that these early DLR1060 radios support only 6 channels. My current fleet of DLR1060 radios were purchased in January 2018 and they support 10 channels.

My early DLR1060s from 2015 and my current fleet of DLR1060s both report the same codeplug and firmware versions, R01.01, so I think a model change happened.

52

Motorola claims that there has been no firmware updates to the DLR series. I wonder if it’s a capability of the newer CPS? Have you been able to try adding channels to an older DLR to see for certain?

53

I wondered if the latest CPS (R07.00) added more channels to the DLRs. R07.00 added the new DTR 600/700. I opened default DLR profiles using R06.00 and R07.00 CPS. Both show the DLR1060 model supporting 10 channels. The DLR1020 shows 2 channels supported. I also tried a reset to factory defaults on one of my DLR1060 radios and read it with CPS R07.00 and let the CPS figure out the model. It reads as a DLR1060 with 10 channels supported. I don’t have any CPS earlier than R06.00. I think I got rid of R05.00 after R06.00 became available.

Info on my current DLR1060 fleet:

[ul]
[li]Model: DLR1060BHLAA[/li]nr[li]Build date: December 22, 2017[/li][/ul]

EDIT: I should have looked at the ReadMe file for the CPS. The maximum channels available in the DLR1060 was increased in CPS R05.01. I previously was using R05.00 with my older DLRs back in 2015.

Version Notes

R01.00 Support for the RM series and RDX series radios.
R02.00 Support User Customized Voice Prompt and NWR Specific Area Messaging Encoding (SAME).
R02.01 Block using frequency 158.4MHz to transmit.
R03.00 Support for the DLR series and DTR series radios.
R03.01 Update the default individual response time.
R04.00 Support for the CLS series radios.
R05.00 Support for the CLP series radios.
R05.01 Update the Maximum Channel for DLR series radio.
R06.00 Update for the CLP series radio.
R07.00 Support for the DTR series radio.

It looks like the DLR1060 has had 10 channel capability since CPS R05.01.

54

I installed CPS R05.00 to test the number of channnels supported in the DLR1060. Opening a new DLR1060 profile in CPS R05.00 shows a maximum of 6 channels supported. Opening a new DLR1060 profile in CPS R06.00 and R07.00 shows a maximum of 10 channels. I would say this confirms more channels were added to the DLR1060 through an update in the CPS. I wasn’t able to find CPS R05.01 to try it out. CPS R06.00 and R07.00 definitely support 10 channels in the DLR1060.

I’m curious to know if anybody has ever tried hacking the DLR1060 model file the CPS uses to increase the maximum channels available or enable any other features.

Anyhow, the good news is the DLR1060 supports a maximum of 10 channels when using the latest CPS. :eusa_clap:

55

Interesting stuff! Well done, David.

56

With my DTR700 radios having shipped from my Moto dealer and due to arrive in a week, I explored my DLR programming some more because the DTR700 and DTR600 program like the DLRs. I figured out how to get the DLRs working in Public Group mode with IDs starting at 1 instead of being forced to start at 21.

The restriction that public group IDs start at 21 poses a headache for DLR users wanting to seemlessly integrate DLRs into a fleet of older DTR 410/550/650 radios without having to update the public group programming in the DTRs. It turns out that is it is VERY easy to make Public Groups in the DLRs fully compatible with public groups in the older DTRs.

The 4 digit radio Profile ID and Profile ID mode channels are new features in the DLRs and the new DTR 700/600 which the older DTR 410/550/650 don’t have. The Profile ID has to be set at the 0000 default (Off) for Profile ID mode channels to be compatible with the older DTRs. The Profile ID feature added an interesting twist to the programming of public groups.

A channel in a DLR radio has 3 modes available: Profile ID mode, Public Group mode, and Private Group mode. The new DTR700 and DTR600 models program like the DLRs.

[ul]
[li]Profile ID mode uses the first 20 group IDs on hopset #1 and are not editable. Profile ID mode channels are secured with the 4 digit Profile ID. This makes it easy to secure a channel similar to a Private Group in older DTRs but doesn’t require the Private ID of every member of the group to be programmed in the radio. It makes it easier to add new DLRs to an existing fleet of DLRs and secure them without having to reprogram all radios in the fleet. To add new DLR radios to an existing fleet of DLRs and secure them, set the 4 digit Profile ID in the new DLRs to match what the fleet uses and you are done. New DLRs can be added to an existing fleet of DLRs and be secured without using the CPS. The Profile ID feature makes it insanely easy.[/li]nr[li]Public Group mode functions like Public Groups in the older DTRs but the group ID must start at 21 because the first 20 group IDs are used by Profile ID mode channels and are not editable. More on this behavior below because the behavior is affected by the radio Profile ID.[/li]nr[li]Private Group mode programs and functions identical to Private Groups in the older DTRs. The group must contain the Private IDs of every member of the group just like with the older DTRs.[/li][/ul]

The issue with setting up Public Groups in the DLRs is the first 20 group IDs are taken up by Profile ID mode channels and are not editable. This means that public groups must start at ID=21. This is where owners of older DTRs run into headaches with integrating DLRs into public groups in a fleet of older DTRs where the group ID is less than 21 (i.e., 1,2,3, etc.). I discovered the restriction of public group IDs starting at 21 only applies when the 4 digit Profile ID is at the 0000 default (Off). Setting the 4 digit Profile ID to a non-zero value secures Profile ID mode channels and allows IDs for Public Groups to start at 1, identical to public groups in the older DTRs.

To set up Public Groups in DLRs identical to older DTR 410/550/650 public groups, do the following:

[ul]
[li]Set the 4 digit Profile ID to a non-zero value, even if you are not going to use any Profile ID mode channels. Pick a favorite 4 digit number that’s easy to remember and hard to other people to guess (i.e., don’t use 1234, etc.). This will secure any Profile ID channels that you use and prevent your DLRs from getting trolled by other DLRs using Call All Available and Page All Available features.[/li]nr[li]Create Public Groups on the ADVANCED page in the CPS. The index of groups created will start at 21 because the first 20 groups are taken up by Profile ID mode groups but the Public Group IDs will now start at 1 instead of 21 like in the older DTR 410/550/650. The full range of group IDs are now available for programming public groups identical to the older DTRs.[/li]nr[li]On the BASIC page in the CPS, you need to map the public group(s) to the channel(s) where you want the public group(s) to be. On each channel that is to be a public group, set the channel mode to Public and select the public group to be mapped to the channel.[/li][/ul]

I am finding the more I explore the DLR programming, the more I am liking the DLR way of programming over the older DTR programming.

57

I learned something interesting tonight while experimenting with the 4 digit Profile ID feature. The 4 digit Profile ID defines the ID and frequency hopset for the first 20 public groups. The default is 0000 (Off) and is compatible with the DTR 410/550/650. When the Profile ID is non-zero and Profile ID Number Lock = ON, the frequency hopset on all contacts and groups will change according to the 4 digit Profile ID. I happened to notice this when I entered a different 4 digit Profile ID and found the frequency hopset on all groups and contacts had changed. The hopset used is not editable with Profile ID Number Lock = ON.

After some experimentation, I found the last digit (4th digit) of the 4 digit Profile ID determines which hopset will be used. When the last digit = 1, hopset 1 will be used. When the last digit = 2, hopset 2 will be used, etc. Hopset 10 is represented by the last digit = 0. I think the first 3 digits of the 4 digit Profile ID represents a group ID, possibly a supergroup to the normal public group IDs. I don’t know for sure, I’m curious and just speculating.

What I learned from this is the last digit (4th digit) of the 4 digit Profile ID affects which hopset will be used for Profile ID mode channels. Be careful when choosing a 4 digit Profile ID to use if you want to use a particular frequency hopset. It also explains why I earlier thought the Profile ID affects the whole radio and later found it only affected Profile ID mode channels. When I first tried it, I used a Profile ID that changed the hopset and Profile ID Number Lock was ON so it changed everything in the radio. I later found that setting the Profile ID affected only my Profile ID mode channels and not public groups or private groups because I happened to select a Profile ID that kept everything on the same hopset. I was using hopset 1 originally and the last digit in the Profile ID happened to be 1. The Profile ID appears to affect the hopset used by the entire radio when Profile ID Number Lock = ON. When OFF, the Profile ID only affects the hopset used by Profile ID mode channels.

EDIT: Turning Profile ID Number Lock = OFF causes the 4 digit Profile ID to only affect the hopset of the first 20 public groups the radio uses for the Profile ID mode. The last digit of the 4 digit Profile ID still affects which hopset the first 20 public groups will use for Profile ID mode channels. It does not affect the hopset used by individual contacts, (normal DTR 410/550/650) public groups, and private groups. The CPS warns that disabling the Profile ID Number lock and changing the hopset used on contacts and public and private groups may cause the Page All Available and Call All Available features to not work.

The bottom line is choose a 4 digit Profile ID carefully if you want to use a particular hopset for Profile ID mode channels. Pay attention to whether the Profile ID Number Lock is ON or OFF if you want to use a different hopset for public and private group channels.

:slight_smile:

58

Great Thread! Thanks for sharing all of your findings! Very helpful